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general reflow and reball info.

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    general reflow and reball info.

    Well this thread was a roaring success on my previous home so i thought i should give it a shot here to
    I hope everyone into this kind of thing will add to it and share their experiences.

    I will be starting it off with my process for reflowing and reballing using a Pu-Hui t8280 preheater and ayoue 968 hot air rework station.



    it would be great if everyone shared their own setups and tips n tricks you have picked that only come from experience.
    I've been reworking consoles and laptops now for about 18 months and almost every bit of knowledge was gleamed from a similar thread and the few who were willing to share their own knowledge.

    Flux

    good flux is key in any bga rework and can make or break the work you do if its not up to the task. avoid any clear liquid flux's and ebay as its mostly just general flux watered down with isopropanol and is usually easily identified by the strong ipa smell it will give off but obviously you will have been ripped off by the time you find that out. i've ended up being sold 99%ipa as a flux thanks to the ebay ripoff merchants and a lack of knowledge when i started. i now only use insat RMA liquid super flux for most of my work though i do prefer the amtech 4300 flux for chip attach and cleaning up the old solder on the chip and board. a good flux will still be visible at the end of the reflow/reball proccess so if you see it all burn off before then you have most likely got an ipa watered down flux i'm afraid.
    now most flux is highly corrosive so you must clean it off afterward. a quick flush out with ipa under the chip and a blast of compressed air will clean it up nicely, you may however get some sticky brown residue left around the edge of the chip. this is dirt and crap the flux has bubbled out from under the chip so its actually a good thing to some degree but get this stuff off when your board is at around 80 degrees on the cooldown and it cleans off much easier than if you left the board to fully cool. under the chip isn't going to get this build up so don't concern yoursef with that, under there there will be very minimal residue.
    i buy my amtech here http://www.bgamods.co.uk/index.php?r...tegory&path=62 and the liquid flux from here http://www.insatinternational.com/pr...category_id=13 though with a bit of luck karl at bga mods will have the insat flux soon too. he is my prefered one stock shopping man for all my rework needs

    The Importance Of Board jigs

    Board jigs may come with your setup depending what system you use but if not its highly recommended to get them. there is only the 2 jigs required for xbox 360 work, phat and slim but for PS3 there are several different board revisons in the phat consoles and another for the slims. avoid chinese aluminium jigs as they can warp very quickly but be aware all may warp over time and so require replacing from time to time, i've not had to replace mine yet though as mine are laser cut mild steel so will be very resistance to heat and cooling cycles. there are various universal you can also buy but i have yet to see one i'm ready to buy as they tend to be on the expensive side and get mixed reviews from users. bga mods can supply excellent console jigs.

    xbox jig


    board on. secured with pc motherboard screws


    underside view


    TC Positioning

    Top side tc



    my bottom side tc is impossible to get a shot of but its much the same as the top ones position but on the opposite side on the gpu. avoid using alutape to secure the bottom tc so as not to deflect heat away from that area instead secure it well with kapton tape bearing in mind the weight of the tc and the heat could dislodge this if not secured properly and that's just going to melt your tc on you and a roll of kapton's a fair bit less so go mad if you have to. you could also invest in karls magnetic flexi tc holder and never have to worry about it coming off. http://www.bgamods.co.uk/BGA_Rework_Sta ... _TC_Holder if your interested.

    i have split the reflow guide into 2 stages. 1 for the room temp to 200c stage and another for the 200-225 stage. am trying to make this as easy a read as possible.

    Preheat And Reflow Stage1

    1. Turn preheater onto 180C and leave until bottom side temps are 180C then hold for 2 mins.
    2. Turn Aoyue onto 90C at this point and hold for 1 minute
    3. Turn Aoyue up to 150C and hold for 1 minute
    4. Turn Aoyue up to 201C and hold for 1 minute
    5. Turn Aoyue up to 250C and hold for 1 minute (may or may not be required, if you hit 200
    before this disregard it completely)

    WARNING: Be aware that the ThermoCouple temp is the one to watch and your preheater may well need setting to a different temp to hit 180 on your TC. Mine is actually set to 140 on the preheater to reach 180 on the TC due to a faulty TC on the preheater, every machine differs slightly so like i said its the TC temp that's important at every stage here.

    Reflow Stage 2

    1. so to briefly sum up stage 1. Always keep your eye on the topside thermocouple. up to 180c should be done purely with your preheater. from 180c to 200c increase is handled purely by the aoyue so keep increasing the top heat from your aoyue by 50C every minute until topside reaches 200C. this will vary some i find but watch the external top side tc and ignore the temps on the machine and you will be fine.
    2. At this point step Aoyue up 3C every second until topside reaches 217C then start 20
    second countdown
    3. After the 20 second countdown keep increasing by 3C every second until topside reaches
    225C and hold for another 20 seconds. While your waiting the 20 seconds here you can
    give the chip the most gentle of nudge's on one corner, if you see movement you know for
    a fact you have liquified all the solder balls and it is a good reflow of the chip. don't panic
    the surface tension will keep everything in place as long as you are not brutal while you
    nudge, remember you are only looking for a half millimeter of movement at most, just
    enough to see it move.
    4. After the 20 second countdown drop Aoyue straight down to 201C and hold for 2 minutes
    5. Raise Aoyue nozzle to half inch
    6. Switch Aoyue off which will decrease the temp of Aoyue to 90C before turning off
    7. Switch black switch off on preheater. Preheater will now begin to gradually cool down
    8. At 65C switch preheater main power switch off


    Finishing Up

    1. Leave board until topside temp is 45C
    2. Remove board and allow to cool for further 5 minutes then flat test with the heatsinks
    resting on the chips and hopefully all green.


    Chip lifts can use the same profile but I take the temperature up to 230 to allow a clean lift.



    I also use this profile for chip reattachment.

    Re-attach Stage 1

    1. Turn preheater onto 170C and leave until bottom side temps are 170C then hold for 2 mins.
    2. Turn Aoyue onto 90C at this point and hold for 1 minute
    3. Turn Aoyue up to 150C and hold for 1 minute
    4. Turn Aoyue up to 201C and hold for 1 minute
    5. Turn Aoyue up to 250C and hold for 1 minute (may or may not be required, if you hit 185
    before this disregard it completely)


    Re-Seating The Chip Stage 2

    1. Always keep your eye on the topside thermocouple and keep increasing by 50C every
    minute until topside reaches 185C
    2. At this point step Aoyue up 3C every second until topside reaches 197C then start 20
    second countdown
    3. Keep increasing by 3C every second until topside reaches 205C and hold for 20 seconds
    4. After the 20 second countdown drop Aoyue straight down to 190C
    Hold for 2 minutes
    5. Raise Aoyue nozzle to half inch
    6. Switch Aoyue off which will decrease the temp of Aoyue to 90C before turning off
    7. Switch black switch off on preheater. Preheater will now begin to gradually cool down
    8. At 65C switch preheater main power switch off


    Finishing Up

    1. Leave board until topside temp is 45C
    2. Remove board and allow to cool for further 5 minutes then flat test with the heatsinks
    resting on the chips and hopefully all green.

    here is a shot of the gpu and hana chip lifted from a zephyr motherboard. note the brown crap where the hana was that the flux has collected from where the fans drag dust under it during the preheat stage and how the area the chip belongs is now spotlessly clean. thats insat flux for you



    Hope this helps and i will add stuff as it comes to me.
    Last edited by garageinc; 03-20-2013 at 06:05 AM.


  2. #2
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    Very nice indeed. I'm about to step out for a little while but I will check this out in more detail for sure when I get back.

    Thanks for the contribution!
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    anytime mate, its great to have somewhere to share it. really its karl who should get the thanks though for this, though i have tweaked it slightly since he gave me it.

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    yes mate was great thread we had a laugh i'll post mine when i get sorted it's really doing my head in now so if any of you guys have achi ir 6000 please fire some help at me

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    Quote Originally Posted by brett1 View Post
    yes mate was great thread we had a laugh i'll post mine when i get sorted it's really doing my head in now so if any of you guys have achi ir 6000 please fire some help at me
    Good to see you here brett1.your input is most welcome.

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    i wish i could help with the achii profile mate but that would be karl's forte. there is a good crowd on this fb reball group, very helpful lot http://www.facebook.com/groups/thebgastore/ but the aim is here will be better

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    I just picked up 5 RRoDs for $15 each. Hell of a deal and will give me plenty of tries to get me new equipment tuned in.

    I will post some questions a little later as I can already think of a few.
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    OK here are my questions.

    1. You say 180C is the target temp for the board. I've had buttons melt on some of my test boards with higher top temps. I'm not sure what the temp was but how close is 180C to that?
    2. What is the purpose of starting the top heater at half the bottom heaters temp? Wouldn't that be cooling the chip down and then heating it back up as the temps are increased?
    3. Some guides I have read suggest using 2 TCs. What is the purpose of that?
    4. What is the best type of TC to use? Type K I know but I've been using type K TC wire with the ends twisted and soldered together. I cannot for the life of me get two to read the same so I'm almost guessing at the temps. The tip you give to nudge the chip with help though but I will need to practice that on a scrap board a few time lol.
    5. What is the best positioning for the TCs? I've been putting it as close to the chip as I can get.
    6. What flux do you recommend? (I already know the answer to this but you might want to add it to your post )


    That's all I can think of for know.

    BTW, I can't follow your instructions exactly as my machine will only increment temps by 10 but the person I bought it from shared this profile with me. I've had luck with it but that was with a griddle for the bottom heater and lower temps on that. I'm really looking forward to perfecting my reflows and moving on to reballs.

    1. Preheat board to 120C to 130C for 5 minutes
    2. Turn on Aoyue to 72 air flow and 150C for 1 minute
    3. Turn to 200C for 1 minute
    4. Turn to 250C for 30 seconds
    5. For every 10 seconds increase temperature 20C (DO NOT exceed over 400C on the machine). Do this until your thermocouples reach the desired temperatures
    6. 215C-220C for xenon motherboards
    7. 225C-230C for zephyrs, falcons, and jasper motherboards
    8. Hold for 15-20 seconds
    9. Turn off preheater
    10. Decrease temperature to 100C and hold until the machine hits 100C.
    11. Wait about 30 minutes to cool to room temperature

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    I have the Jovy RE-7500.

    Facebook group looks interesting too.

    Got Gav'd

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krafter View Post
    OK here are my questions.

    1. You say 180C is the target temp for the board. I've had buttons melt on some of my test boards with higher top temps. I'm not sure what the temp was but how close is 180C to that?
    2. What is the purpose of starting the top heater at half the bottom heaters temp? Wouldn't that be cooling the chip down and then heating it back up as the temps are increased?
    3. Some guides I have read suggest using 2 TCs. What is the purpose of that?
    4. What is the best type of TC to use? Type K I know but I've been using type K TC wire with the ends twisted and soldered together. I cannot for the life of me get two to read the same so I'm almost guessing at the temps. The tip you give to nudge the chip with help though but I will need to practice that on a scrap board a few time lol.
    5. What is the best positioning for the TCs? I've been putting it as close to the chip as I can get.
    6. What flux do you recommend? (I already know the answer to this but you might want to add it to your post )


    That's all I can think of for know.

    BTW, I can't follow your instructions exactly as my machine will only increment temps by 10 but the person I bought it from shared this profile with me. I've had luck with it but that was with a griddle for the bottom heater and lower temps on that. I'm really looking forward to perfecting my reflows and moving on to reballs.
    some excellent suggestions mate, i will get the edit done today and add your suggestions.

    anyway to answer your questions
    1. i'm not sure why your buttons are melting mate, i've only had this myself trying to remove them for when they are damaged and need replacing. thats something you will never do with hot air without wrecking the plug/button in the process. for that job i would recommend chip quik http://uk.farnell.com/chip-quik/smd1...ree/dp/1850218 a quick watch of the video at the bottom of the page will show you why
    2. this will indeed cool the chip slightly but your going to see a drop of 10c at most in the minute your top jeat is set at 90. the main purpose of doing it is to avoid thermal shocking the chip with the top heat too much as a fast increase to it will kill it in most cases. i'm sure you could get away with starting it higher but as i've had such great results with this method i'm reluctant to change it. i wouldn't start top heat off at more than 150 though or you risk the top and bottom heat combining to go higher than you intended which obviously could be dissasterous.
    3. i have gone the route of 2 tc's (3 actually if you count the t8280's bottom tc) before but like you point out its near impossible with hot air to get an even temperature from both if they are positioned either side of the chip. since i started nudging the chip i only use the one set as close to the chip as possible but without the kapton tape i use to secure it getting in the bubble zone for the flux as that will lift the tc and it can easily go unnoticed and actually be giving you an air reading and not the board. your almost guarantee'd that will result in popcorn or death and could even see you picking up several smd caps from the plates of your preheater or perhaps a ram brick.
    4. i use ktype tc's and they are by far the best type for this work. highly recommended to grab an omega tc or 2 http://www.bgamods.co.uk/Omega_TC_Wire thes tc are the same as you would find on the achii and honton ir machines and are super acurate. its also tiny and unbraided so it rests coompletely flat to the board and if you were so inclined you could actually gently insert the tip under the gpu corner for perfect chip readings. i personally still leave it attached a couple of millimeters from the chip itself. i'll get some photo's for you as it will be much easier to show what i mean here.
    5. i think i covered in question 4.
    6. flux is the key in all of this and the best i have found so far is the insat RMA super flux for reflows and chip lifts http://www.insatinternational.com/pr...category_id=13 and amtech 4300 for clean up and chip attach . http://www.bgamods.co.uk/Amtech_LF-4300-TF_10cc i know insat sell this as well but i'd rather buy from karl at bga mods as you just will not find a better customer service and a genuinly top guy as you will in karl almost anywhere else. he is a friend but i would still feel like this if he was just my supplier so i can't recommend using him enough.


    i wouldn't worry too much about not being able to increase you top heater exactly like mine, mine goes up in 3c increments but i dont see a 3c increase at the tc, its more like 1-2c on the tc for every 6c on the ayoue so you can just increase yours by 10 every 2-3 seconds and achieve the same result

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